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Why Do People Commit Suicide? | Andy Stumpf & Dr. Andrew Huberman

Huberman Lab Clips19:38Added Aug 31, 2026

Andy Stumpf and Dr. Andrew Huberman discuss the psychological factors contributing to suicide in high-performance military communities, highlighting the 'tun...

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  1. Understanding the Suicide Crisis

  2. 00:00in the larger outside world now uh you
  3. 00:02know we are seeing much more suicide
  4. 00:06let's just be real blunt
  5. 00:08and it's not just men it's women too but
  6. 00:10it does seem to be higher among men
  7. 00:12these days you know it raises some
  8. 00:14really complicated but I think important
  9. 00:16questions around
  10. 00:19what is going through people's minds
  11. 00:21that would lead them them to think that
  12. 00:24it was or should be the end of the line
  13. 00:26for them for themselves goes against
  14. 00:29every bit of adaptive evolutionary
  15. 00:31biology. It goes against all religious
  16. 00:33doctrine in terms of what's adaptive.
  17. 00:35So, you know, there's no straightforward
  18. 00:37answer to this. But earlier we were
  19. 00:40talking about before we were recording
  20. 00:42perhaps people get into a tunnel of the
  21. 00:45idea that the way they feel in a given
  22. 00:47moment is the way it's going to be
  23. 00:48forever. So two guys sitting here who
  24. 00:51are not in that state to yeah
  25. 00:52kind of wonder about that is uh we can
  26. 00:55only speculate but
  27. 00:57what do you think based on what you've
  28. 01:00observed and you welcome to share if you
  29. 01:02like this from your book you talk about
  30. 01:04Dave yeah
  31. 01:05is there any understanding of of what's
  32. 01:07going on for people in the in the days
  33. 01:10weeks months moments leading up to uh
  34. 01:12those decisions that you know maybe we
  35. 01:14can do some good here and help people
  36. 01:17identify if they are starting to enter
  37. 01:19that it's always going to feel like this
  38. 01:21mode.
  39. 01:22Man, there have been so many
  40. 01:23conversations about this and there are
  41. 01:26so many programs that exist to try to
  42. 01:29help. I I'll say guys because that's the

  43. Special Operations Community Statistics

  44. 01:31community that I came from with this.
  45. 01:33The Green Beret community
  46. 01:36has now lost more people to suicide than
  47. 01:39combat operations since 2001. What? Yep.
  48. 01:42I don't know where the SEAL community is
  49. 01:44with that, but I bet you they're close.
  50. 01:46The numbers will eclipse for sure.
  51. 01:49So it is an issue that it is an
  52. 01:52unavoidable issue. Every situation is
  53. 01:56different to a degree that they share
  54. 01:58some similarities. The so in speaking
  55. 02:01specifically of the SEAL teams, I mean
  56. 02:03there's the biggest similarity, right?
  57. 02:04They came from that community and they
  58. 02:06probably had
  59. 02:08some semblance of shared experiences
  60. 02:10whether that be deployments, time away
  61. 02:13from family, the psychological and
  62. 02:15physiological stresses of the job,
  63. 02:18but it doesn't seem to impact everybody
  64. 02:20equally either. Everybody's experiences
  65. 02:23differ. You could be in a room I was
  66. 02:25going to say with six people, but it's
  67. 02:26unlikely you'll be in a room with six
  68. 02:28people just because u we don't generally
  69. 02:30have that many people and we try to
  70. 02:32solve issues with as few as possible.
  71. 02:34Let's say four. I have no understanding
  72. 02:37why
  73. 02:39the same shared experience although
  74. 02:41maybe viewed from a slightly different
  75. 02:43angle in totality could break somebody
  76. 02:46but not the other three or why everybody
  77. 02:49has a different volume of you know
  78. 02:51somebody's got this much volume versus
  79. 02:52this much versus a thimble and I don't I
  80. 02:55don't understand why
  81. 02:58those experiences
  82. 03:00seem to break some people or in my
  83. 03:02opinion I think they can if you put the
  84. 03:05work can make you an even better version
  85. 03:06of yourself. And I also think that you
  86. 03:08can pour some of the stuff out or drill
  87. 03:10a hole in the bottom and work through
  88. 03:11these things. [snorts]
  89. 03:13Dave being the example,
  90. 03:16the things that stick out would be, and
  91. 03:19again, this is me. This is me speaking.
  92. 03:21I can't speak for Dave.
  93. 03:24There was a huge delta, I think, between
  94. 03:28how he thought of himself and how other
  95. 03:30people thought of him.
  96. 03:35And in most of the funerals that I've
  97. 03:37gone to that involve suicide, the number
  98. 03:40one question is why? Why didn't somebody
  99. 03:45reach out for help or and maybe they did
  100. 03:47because you you know you don't I mean I
  101. 03:48guess you could look at their electronic
  102. 03:49device or maybe it was a face to face.
  103. 03:51It's hard to say. But the difference in
  104. 03:56what Dave left behind, he left behind
  105. 03:59some journals.
  106. 04:00And I think that there are
  107. 04:04pros and cons.
  108. 04:06If you are in a place where you have the
  109. 04:08opportunity to read somebody's what they
  110. 04:11have left behind and not, you may not
  111. 04:13want to know. It may make it more
  112. 04:15difficult because I've also seen people
  113. 04:17attach a a very immense amount of grief
  114. 04:20because they either think that what was
  115. 04:21written and left behind was specifically
  116. 04:24about them or they oh man I was there
  117. 04:26and I could have you know the could have
  118. 04:28would have should have which is all
  119. 04:30hypothetical and doesn't change the fact
  120. 04:32that it already happened but I've seen
  121. 04:33people deeply deeply struggle with that.
  122. 04:35[snorts]
  123. 04:36So that would be the negative. The pro
  124. 04:38could be perhaps I don't know closure.
  125. 04:41So it really depends on the person.
  126. 04:42choose wisely. As somebody who has uh
  127. 04:45experienced that [snorts] um my
  128. 04:47experience is it was a combination of
  129. 04:48both. I I felt a deeper level of
  130. 04:51understanding but also a deep sense I
  131. 04:53wish I would have done more [snorts]
  132. 04:57the internal struggles
  133. 05:01and self-t talk
  134. 05:03and monologue.
  135. 05:05I couldn't read it without crying.

  136. Self-Perception Versus Reality

  137. 05:10And I don't think he realized
  138. 05:14how highly other people thought of him.
  139. 05:17The gap between the two is just
  140. 05:19unbelievable. He he and not everybody
  141. 05:22is. He was isolated at the time. There
  142. 05:25was alcohol involved to the best of my
  143. 05:27knowledge, which unfortunately,
  144. 05:30especially in the community that I come
  145. 05:31from, those two things are pretty often
  146. 05:34tied. Not always, but often tied to
  147. 05:35alcohol in that decision as well. And
  148. 05:37the stats are pretty well back about,
  149. 05:40you know, the alcohol being, you could
  150. 05:41speak to this, and you know, the central
  151. 05:44nervous system depressant. It's not
  152. 05:46like, yay, I'm feeling the best I've
  153. 05:47ever felt. It generally will spiral you
  154. 05:49in the other direction. But when I look
  155. 05:51at Dave, he was and is to this day what
  156. 05:55I would consider to be the standard for
  157. 05:57a team guy. And what I loved about him
  158. 06:00so much is that not only did he expect
  159. 06:03that standard from other people, but he
  160. 06:05held himself and actually more than
  161. 06:06that. I think I would say he held
  162. 06:09himself to a higher standard than he
  163. 06:12would hold other people to. If you met
  164. 06:14his standard, you were going to get two
  165. 06:15thumbs up. Probably not a pat on the
  166. 06:17back, but you were going to get two
  167. 06:18thumbs up and you were going to know you
  168. 06:19did a good job. If you did not meet his
  169. 06:22standard, which I tested many times, you
  170. 06:24were very specifically told where you're
  171. 06:27deficient in life. and as a human being.
  172. 06:30And he god, he had a tongue like a whip.
  173. 06:33He was awesome. And uh
  174. 06:37I think at the end, and this is me
  175. 06:39speaking for him a little bit, I think
  176. 06:43he arrived at a place
  177. 06:46where he couldn't live with the reality
  178. 06:48that he couldn't hold himself to the
  179. 06:50standard that he had expected from other
  180. 06:51people. And I think it destroyed him.
  181. 06:54But I don't know if he shared that with
  182. 06:55anybody. I don't think so. some of the
  183. 06:57last people that he spoke with
  184. 07:01knew that he was
  185. 07:04struggling for sure. He he had an
  186. 07:05alcohol addiction issue for sure. And
  187. 07:07for clarity, I mean, that's Dave would
  188. 07:10be pissed actually if I didn't mention
  189. 07:12that cuz he would never tolerate anybody
  190. 07:13else beating around the bush. He
  191. 07:15legitimately had an issue with alcohol,
  192. 07:17as some people do from that community.
  193. 07:20They knew that he was struggling. He's
  194. 07:22the only guy I know who did multiple
  195. 07:25treatments of I have zero experience in
  196. 07:27psychedelics, but from listening to
  197. 07:29people talk about Iawaska and I gain
  198. 07:31rides that don't seem to be a very good
  199. 07:33time and often times will
  200. 07:35instantaneously change the relationship
  201. 07:37they have with substances whether it's
  202. 07:39opiates or alcohol. Not that you would
  203. 07:41never drink again, but their their
  204. 07:43relationship with it just shifts.
  205. 07:44They're like, "You know what? Uh, I
  206. 07:46don't even have the desire to do so."
  207. 07:4972 hours later, 96 hours later, and it's
  208. 07:52not like he just tried once. He would go
  209. 07:54back. He would even facilitate
  210. 07:58treatment for other people,
  211. 08:02but it wasn't working for him, but he
  212. 08:04wasn't he wasn't sharing that. And that
  213. 08:07isolation and loneliness
  214. 08:10and that difference between that
  215. 08:12standard and what he was able to do
  216. 08:15got him to that place where he put a gun
  217. 08:18in his mouth, you know, alone, isolated
  218. 08:21at his family home in Florida.
  219. 08:23And when everybody showed up at the
  220. 08:25funeral, it's like,
  221. 08:27what could we what could we have done
  222. 08:29more? And that happens at every nobody's
  223. 08:31at a funeral saying did everything I
  224. 08:34could. never have heard that by the way
  225. 08:36that just God I nailed it. I'm like
  226. 08:37really exhibit A would like none of us
  227. 08:41nailed it. We all [ __ ] up or
  228. 08:45did we do the best that we could and
  229. 08:47it's something that we can't stop. I
  230. 08:49don't know. I have I've started to have
  231. 08:50pretty deep conversations with friends
  232. 08:53around from that community around what
  233. 08:56can be done. I don't think uh an
  234. 08:59absolutionist approach is good. I think

  235. Seeking Solutions & Programs

  236. 09:01driving to zero is possible is
  237. 09:02impossible because it's a it's a an
  238. 09:05affliction that strikes all of humanity.
  239. 09:08A reductionist approach I think is
  240. 09:10helpful. But at this point I don't know
  241. 09:13what else can be done.
  242. 09:16I mean millions of dollars advocated
  243. 09:19towards these type of programs things
  244. 09:21like Ambio you know just south of the
  245. 09:24border or what Marcus and Amber
  246. 09:26component are doing with vets which are
  247. 09:28largely an interface to the there's
  248. 09:29portals and people and I'm on some of
  249. 09:31these groups where
  250. 09:33even the inkling somebody is in trouble
  251. 09:36or you need help like people are they're
  252. 09:37trying to get stuff done getting
  253. 09:39connected people are getting on
  254. 09:40airplanes and I was with mutual friend
  255. 09:43DJ I think it was last week in one of
  256. 09:45his new guys who had become a team
  257. 09:48leader who had gotten out just killed
  258. 09:50himself
  259. 09:52and both and we we sit there with faces
  260. 09:56like this with things that are un that
  261. 09:59we don't know what to say in between us.
  262. 10:01I don't know. I don't know what's going
  263. 10:03on there.
  264. 10:05Yeah. Well, I certainly don't know
  265. 10:07either. I think that um
  266. 10:11if we can borrow anything useful from
  267. 10:14other areas of
  268. 10:16uh mental health and neuroscience
  269. 10:18because it I think ultimately this is a
  270. 10:20brain issue
  271. 10:22right I don't think it's like a gut
  272. 10:23health issue although that could impact
  273. 10:24it right I might be wrong
  274. 10:26right it could be yeah I mean that it
  275. 10:27could be but but I think it's a a
  276. 10:29thought process that leads to a decision
  277. 10:31that you know and that's in the brain so
  278. 10:33if we were to just take like start at
  279. 10:34ground truths
  280. 10:36not to try and make this reduction we'd
  281. 10:38say maybe suicidality is not one thing
  282. 10:41just like we know that you can get a
  283. 10:44fever from a lot of things.
  284. 10:45I don't want to say no one is immune
  285. 10:47because I do think that fortunately it's
  286. 10:50you know not everybody but maybe
  287. 10:52everyone has the potential to go there
  288. 10:53and there's certain buffers that we're
  289. 10:54not aware of.
  290. 10:55You might come out of the box immune to
  291. 10:58it but I think either something
  292. 11:00psychologically or physiologically can
  293. 11:02happen that maybe could open a door that
  294. 11:04had started off closed. Mhm.
  295. 11:06That's a guess.

  296. High Performers & Isolation

  297. 11:07In all these instances they're leaping
  298. 11:09to mind of unfortunately real life
  299. 11:12suicides, every single one of the people
  300. 11:15um was a very high performer at one
  301. 11:17point, highly very highly regarded,
  302. 11:19revered, etc. And so I I think you've
  303. 11:22really um touched on something important
  304. 11:25which is that this notion of like it's
  305. 11:27lonely at the top that there's it's true
  306. 11:29that there's people are busy you know
  307. 11:31there's not the general public is not so
  308. 11:33concerned about you know winners and
  309. 11:35their plight you know but when you hear
  310. 11:38about something like this you know um
  311. 11:41you realize that it people can be quite
  312. 11:43lonely and perhaps as the number of true
  313. 11:46peers that somebody has because they're
  314. 11:47in a leadership position over already
  315. 11:49ultra high performers
  316. 11:50the need to impress, the need to not
  317. 11:53have their their image shattered is it
  318. 11:55goes up and up and up and up. There
  319. 11:56might be something there. I think
  320. 11:58there's certainly important work to be
  321. 12:00done, but there aren't real data, I
  322. 12:03don't think, on the number of people who
  323. 12:05were kind of veering in this direction,
  324. 12:07but somebody reached out. Yeah.
  325. 12:08And then they're 6 months later saying,
  326. 12:10"Hey, thanks. You know, I, you know, you
  327. 12:11really helped me back when, and maybe
  328. 12:13they weren't right at that edge." Yeah.
  329. 12:14So, we don't have data on what worked to
  330. 12:16keep people away from this edge either.
  331. 12:18So, it's a really tough problem, but you
  332. 12:21know, tough problems are tractable.
  333. 12:24Yeah. I worry less about the guys who
  334. 12:26are able to verbalize what they're going
  335. 12:28through.
  336. 12:29It's the ones who are more quiet. You
  337. 12:32know, you you talk about, you know,
  338. 12:33lonely at the top. Dave, I left Dave's
  339. 12:36military career largely out of it. He
  340. 12:39originally wanted to go to development
  341. 12:41group and didn't make it through the
  342. 12:42screening process. I think largely more
  343. 12:44due to a personality conflict with one
  344. 12:46of the instructors, which totally
  345. 12:47happens. you get on somebody's radar,
  346. 12:49you might have to come back through. But
  347. 12:51he ended up going to another JSOW
  348. 12:53command that works at an incredibly high
  349. 12:57level, very less known,
  350. 13:00oftent times by yourself in adversarial
  351. 13:05countries. And he crushed it there, I
  352. 13:07think, for like 10 years. I mean, he's
  353. 13:09like
  354. 13:11the top performer of performers. And
  355. 13:14then they contracted him to come back
  356. 13:16and teach guys in their own very long
  357. 13:19selection course. What I didn't realize
  358. 13:22is how much he was struggling
  359. 13:24just holding up that image. Though a
  360. 13:27part of their selection course occurs
  361. 13:28out in Las Vegas.
  362. 13:31He had more than one incident where he
  363. 13:33thought his career was going to be over
  364. 13:34cuz he went out and got shitfaced and
  365. 13:36got arrested.
  366. 13:38They work so independently and
  367. 13:40individually so often nobody even
  368. 13:43realized he had gotten in trouble until
  369. 13:45his security clearance came back around
  370. 13:47and it popped on his security clearance
  371. 13:49which then you know leads to a whole
  372. 13:51variety of other things. But that
  373. 13:53happened to him while he was active and
  374. 13:54then after while he was out. But if you
  375. 13:57were look at the guy you mean you'd say
  376. 14:00to him how do I match your career
  377. 14:01exactly? What exactly are you doing to
  378. 14:04be able to do what it is that you're
  379. 14:06doing, man? Behind the curtain. Holy
  380. 14:09[ __ ]
  381. 14:10just suffering.
  382. 14:14You could see it in the writing, just in
  383. 14:16the
  384. 14:18the shape and texture of the words. You
  385. 14:22could you could see it degrading
  386. 14:25towards the end. It's gnarly.
  387. 14:28And look, I'm not one of these people
  388. 14:30that thinks everyone should just go do I
  389. 14:32gain, which is not a recreational
  390. 14:33experience, you know, right? But I was

  391. Ibogaine & Veteran Support

  392. 14:35going to say the fact that he did that
  393. 14:36has worked. I'll just say this on I've
  394. 14:39said it publicly before, but I'll make
  395. 14:40sure I hammer this, you know, straight
  396. 14:43in the middle that I've been very
  397. 14:44supportive of veteran solutions because
  398. 14:47um and the work that was being done at
  399. 14:48Stanford to support them. the arc of
  400. 14:51both successful escape from addiction
  401. 14:54and PTSD or whatever you want to call it
  402. 14:56through the proper use of ibagane
  403. 14:58medically supervised
  404. 15:01as well as the number of just tragic
  405. 15:04instances of people who didn't make it
  406. 15:06there happen to know Chad Wilkinson's
  407. 15:09wife and talked to Sarah you know and
  408. 15:11you know it's a painful thing to
  409. 15:12[clears throat] be at these things and
  410. 15:13hear all these wonderful stories of
  411. 15:14people that feel like they were rescued
  412. 15:16their spouse was rescued and then um the
  413. 15:18spouses that are there saying, you know,
  414. 15:20it's I'm grateful this exists and I'm
  415. 15:22I'm frustrated that it wasn't there in
  416. 15:24time for their spouse or parent or, you
  417. 15:27know, so or kid. So many people have
  418. 15:29benefited, but some people just seem
  419. 15:32like they're refractory to it. Well,
  420. 15:34hopefully talking about suicide,
  421. 15:37frankly, will will um get people
  422. 15:40thinking about different avenues around
  423. 15:43it. That's the hope.
  424. 15:44Yeah. I don't know the angle. I mean,
  425. 15:46I've tried to focus sometimes on talking
  426. 15:48about the impact that it has on those
  427. 15:51left behind in the hopes that that would
  428. 15:55I don't know buy somebody a 1%
  429. 15:59maybe think about that for 1% and it
  430. 16:01changes literally the trajectory of
  431. 16:03their life. I don't understand
  432. 16:06the choice I I will describe the choice
  433. 16:09of ending your own life as an irrational
  434. 16:11decision. That's I can't make any sense
  435. 16:13of it other than to say like you said it
  436. 16:15goes against every evolutionary
  437. 16:18everything that we can understand. So
  438. 16:21somehow people are arriving at an
  439. 16:24irrational decision and considering it
  440. 16:26to be the only rational solution.
  441. 16:30Talking about the people that they left
  442. 16:32behind and the impact it's going to have
  443. 16:35doesn't seem to have impacted it at all.
  444. 16:38I don't I don't know what the answer is.
  445. 16:41many times, you know, whatever is left
  446. 16:43behind or text messages, the world's
  447. 16:45better off, you know what I mean? Better
  448. 16:46off without me, they feel I'm not going
  449. 16:48to say they feel as if they're doing the
  450. 16:50world a favor. That's that's not what I
  451. 16:51mean to say, but often times the
  452. 16:53language is close to that. Like, I'm
  453. 16:55doing this because you will be better
  454. 16:57off without me. And again, irrational
  455. 16:59decision as their only rational option.

  456. Spiritual & Psychological Perspectives

  457. 17:02I don't I don't know. I don't know. My
  458. 17:04mind goes to all these places. Maybe
  459. 17:05I've uh spent uh more than my fair share
  460. 17:07of time with uh our mutual friend Eddie
  461. 17:10Penny where I I actually think and and
  462. 17:12forgive me cuz I'm a scientist, but
  463. 17:14these days I talk very openly. I
  464. 17:15actually think that evil forces can
  465. 17:17hijack people's minds. I know it sounds
  466. 17:20crazy. It sounds like conspiracy, but I
  467. 17:22believe that inside of our minds we have
  468. 17:24a susceptibility to positive messaging
  469. 17:27and we have a susceptibility to evil
  470. 17:29messaging. And it can come in in
  471. 17:30different forms. And I think bad forces
  472. 17:33can work through us and they tend to
  473. 17:36come through the places of shame. They
  474. 17:39come through the things that we don't
  475. 17:40want to acknowledge. They're like the
  476. 17:41way it was described to me by someone
  477. 17:43far smarter than me is it's like a
  478. 17:44lighthouse that's you know spinning its
  479. 17:47um its illumination and then there's
  480. 17:50like there's like some like dirt on the
  481. 17:53on the lighthouse and it casts this like
  482. 17:55shard of a shadow and that's where stuff
  483. 17:57comes in and gets us. And if we can kind
  484. 17:59of see that stuff and really acknowledge
  485. 18:01it, that's kind of what the real trauma
  486. 18:03proc trauma healing process is about.
  487. 18:05And once you own it, it's very
  488. 18:06different. Things can't get to you the
  489. 18:08same way. Now, I'm speaking in like
  490. 18:10riddles and metaphors here. So, so I
  491. 18:12want to be careful because I'm a
  492. 18:13scientist. I believe in biology. But I
  493. 18:15think that hopefully conversations like
  494. 18:17these will start to open up the the
  495. 18:19thought and maybe in the dialogue around
  496. 18:20this cuz I think the mental health
  497. 18:22community, but really the general public
  498. 18:23needs to start thinking about this in a
  499. 18:25real way because the numbers as you
  500. 18:27mentioned the SEAL teams and other
  501. 18:29special operations communities are
  502. 18:30staggering, but it's growing. I mean,
  503. 18:33and on and on and I don't believe anyone

  504. Limits of Science

  505. 18:36is completely immune just given the the
  506. 18:38the examples. These are people who had
  507. 18:40quote unquote everything going for them
  508. 18:42and then some. So, God willing, this
  509. 18:45will have some positive impact. You
  510. 18:47know,
  511. 18:47I think it's important [clears throat]
  512. 18:48that somebody like yourself as a
  513. 18:49scientist is open to other
  514. 18:52non-scientific
  515. 18:54answers or
  516. 18:56possibilities at least because we
  517. 19:00clearly don't have it figured all out
  518. 19:01yet. And I'm not a scientist, but I'm
  519. 19:03pretty sure scientists don't know
  520. 19:05everything, regardless of how some of
  521. 19:07them might like to tell you that they
  522. 19:08do.
  523. 19:09Definitely do not know everything. And
  524. 19:11if we don't know everything, maybe let's
  525. 19:13just keep it open to possibilities
  526. 19:16because in that journey, hopefully one
  527. 19:18day we will figure out everything. But
  528. 19:20if we lose a bunch of people along the
  529. 19:22way because we were unwilling to at
  530. 19:23least even table a conversation about
  531. 19:26something maybe outside of the science
  532. 19:28realm, I don't think it's worth knowing
  533. 19:30everything.
  534. 19:35[music]