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How Social Media Affects Romantic Relationships | Dr. Paul Eastwick & Dr. Andrew Huberman

Huberman Lab Clips11:59Added Aug 31, 2026

Dr. Paul Eastwick and Dr. Andrew Huberman discuss how social media platforms like Instagram influence modern romantic dynamics, focusing on the psychological...

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  1. Instagram As A Dating App

  2. 00:00The biggest dating app in the world by
  3. 00:03an enormous margin is
  4. 00:05it's not Tinder, Instagram.
  5. 00:07Oh,
  6. 00:08and this was actually very much in
  7. 00:11parallel
  8. 00:12to the the algorithm favoring
  9. 00:16communication by direct message. People
  10. 00:19will say like social media isn't social
  11. 00:21anymore. It's not about like seeing what
  12. 00:22people are doing. the real dynamics, the
  13. 00:26real time spent, and you'll notice how
  14. 00:30you get rewarded and what gets served up
  15. 00:32in the algorithm. Rewarded meaning like
  16. 00:33what what what posts do better than
  17. 00:36others.
  18. 00:36If there's a strong correlate to
  19. 00:39communication about that through direct
  20. 00:40message,
  21. 00:41it's a dating app that's kind of cloaked
  22. 00:44for many people as a social media app,
  23. 00:47but of course, I use it to teach
  24. 00:48neuroscience, right, and and other
  25. 00:49things. And this will be on Instagram.
  26. 00:51So, I mean, I'm a big fan of of
  27. 00:53Instagram and other social media
  28. 00:54platforms for teaching and learning, and
  29. 00:56I say that sincerely, but the majority
  30. 00:59of the time spent now is not scrolling.
  31. 01:03It's it's getting to communications that
  32. 01:06move to real world and then feed back
  33. 01:09Yeah.
  34. 01:09to social media. So, I found that um
  35. 01:12interesting. So, I'm imagining a
  36. 01:14question uh because you study questions
  37. 01:16people ask them on dates. We used to be

  38. Derogation Of Alternatives

  39. 01:18able to say if you were on a deserted
  40. 01:20island, who would you want to be there
  41. 01:22with? Like who's the one person that you
  42. 01:24could stand being with or perhaps even
  43. 01:26really enjoy being with, assuming you
  44. 01:28have all the resources.
  45. 01:30Now, I think the question should be,
  46. 01:32who's the one person that would get you
  47. 01:33to not engage with anyone else in in the
  48. 01:36world?
  49. 01:37In other words, set down what you
  50. 01:39called, and I've never heard this
  51. 01:40before, the derivation of alternatives.
  52. 01:43This is an interesting term. So, in some
  53. 01:46ways, like Committed partnership is
  54. 01:48about setting aside the idea that there
  55. 01:51might be somebody better for us.
  56. 01:53And I would argue again I have strong
  57. 01:57positive feelings towards Instagram. Um
  58. 01:59I really do uh it's a a fun and great
  59. 02:02platform when used in you know
  60. 02:04moderation.
  61. 02:05But it's the opposite of the deserted
  62. 02:07island. and a former guest on this
  63. 02:09podcast who happens to be a divorce
  64. 02:10lawyer, um, James Ston, has talked about
  65. 02:13the fact that many, many, many of the
  66. 02:14divorces that he um, litigates, no, that
  67. 02:18he that he's involved inves Yeah. that
  68. 02:20he helps resolve uh, win for his clients
  69. 02:23started with uh, a
  70. 02:27innocuous communication on his starts
  71. 02:29with a like,
  72. 02:30starts with a like, starts with a
  73. 02:32conversation, starts with a ends up in
  74. 02:34the corner of a grievance or a or a a
  75. 02:36commonality. that's sensed and then the
  76. 02:39derivation of alternatives emerges and
  77. 02:42eventually the relationship dissolves.
  78. 02:43We think about how people handle
  79. 02:45alternative partners. If you're in a

  80. Relationship Defense Mechanisms

  81. 02:46purportedly monogous relationship, this
  82. 02:48is a challenge that relationships are
  83. 02:50going to face. And uh I sort of see
  84. 02:54these like twin streams happening at the
  85. 02:56same time. So
  86. 02:59what you see in general is that for
  87. 03:02people who are in relationships and
  88. 03:04especially if they are happy in that
  89. 03:06relationship,
  90. 03:08any alternative partner that you can
  91. 03:10throw at them,
  92. 03:13they will tend to think that that
  93. 03:14alternative partner is pretty weak
  94. 03:17sauce. They think that person is less
  95. 03:20desirable than any other metric you
  96. 03:22might want to come up with for how
  97. 03:24desirable that person actually is.
  98. 03:26That's what we mean by derrogation of
  99. 03:28alternatives. It's like they're coming
  100. 03:29in up here, but because I'm partnered
  101. 03:32with you and I'm happy with you, I see
  102. 03:34them as less desirable than they
  103. 03:35actually are. Side note, that's why this
  104. 03:38one of the reasons why the marketplace
  105. 03:41metaphor starts to break down because
  106. 03:43people actually start to become bad
  107. 03:45barometers of what is quote unquote
  108. 03:47good. You stop seeing this alternative's
  109. 03:50actual value because you're so happy
  110. 03:53with the person that you have. Okay. So,
  111. 03:55this is a good thing and this is a real
  112. 03:57defense mechanism that people have.
  113. 03:59Is it a defense mechanism or I mean, but
  114. 04:03it's protective of healthy monogous
  115. 04:05relationship.
  116. 04:06Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean it in the
  117. 04:07best Yeah. You know what? That's so
  118. 04:09funny because in our jargon we say
  119. 04:11defense mechanism. I mean that in the
  120. 04:13best possible protective mechanism.
  121. 04:15Yeah. Protective mechanism. Right. Yeah.
  122. 04:16You're defending the relationship.
  123. 04:18That's so funny. I'd like forgotten.
  124. 04:19We've had a few too many uh
  125. 04:21psychologist. Right. Of course. that has
  126. 04:23a negative connotation for some people,
  127. 04:24not for me. Okay? So, it's a protective
  128. 04:26mechanism, but at the same time, people
  129. 04:29also do this thing that you might call
  130. 04:32like playing with fire, but it's more
  131. 04:34like, you know, playing with what really
  132. 04:37seems to be a harmless book of matches.
  133. 04:39And I just I'm just messaging these
  134. 04:41people. Well, what's the big deal? This
  135. 04:43isn't going to go anywhere. Uh I'm just,
  136. 04:46you know, we're we're chatting a little
  137. 04:48bit. This isn't going to go anywhere.
  138. 04:50And things escalate.

  139. Outside Attraction Fueling Desire

  140. 04:51Sorry to interrupt, but Um, and you
  141. 04:53know, one of uh our former guests on
  142. 04:56this podcast who's immensely popular in
  143. 04:58the dating relationships and romance
  144. 05:00sphere is Esther Prell, and I don't want
  145. 05:02to put words in her mouth, but I think
  146. 05:04the perception about some of her
  147. 05:06messaging, whether accurate or not, is
  148. 05:08that there can be some value to, you
  149. 05:11know, in in her first book, I think, and
  150. 05:13I haven't read it, but um the the
  151. 05:15excerpt that was uh relayed to me was
  152. 05:18this notion like, oh, like someone isn't
  153. 05:19feeling as much chemistry in their
  154. 05:21relationship. So, like the woman, this
  155. 05:23wouldn't happen nowadays most likely,
  156. 05:24but goes to a bar and like flirts a bit
  157. 05:26and then like some some sense of of um
  158. 05:29sexual confidence is restored and then
  159. 05:31her husband is then attracted to her
  160. 05:33differently again. And you know, I've
  161. 05:35heard the more crude phrase, doesn't
  162. 05:36matter where you get your appetite as
  163. 05:38long as you eat at home. This is more of
  164. 05:40the 1950s60s variety. By the way, none
  165. 05:42of these statements come from me,
  166. 05:44although my mouth is saying them. These
  167. 05:45are things that you hear out there,
  168. 05:47right?
  169. 05:48Yeah.
  170. 05:49directly uh in opposition to what you're
  171. 05:52saying, which is not to say that what
  172. 05:53you're saying is wrong. I just think
  173. 05:55that there was a there was about a 20 or
  174. 05:5730 year period there where people kind
  175. 06:00of assumed that monogamy could thrive.
  176. 06:02Yeah.
  177. 06:03Despite the inputs and monogamy could
  178. 06:06thrive perhaps even better if people
  179. 06:09acknowledge this aspect of self that is
  180. 06:11still attracted other people. They talk
  181. 06:13about it. what you're talking about is
  182. 06:15really a more of a protective cloak
  183. 06:17around the commitment. I do sense people
  184. 06:20are veering back toward that what you're
  185. 06:22describing. You know how I think about
  186. 06:24it is is the protective cloak. Um that
  187. 06:27that's sort of there as a baseline, but
  188. 06:30then signals will get through some
  189. 06:32sometimes sometimes cuz you're messing
  190. 06:34around on Instagram, but sometimes
  191. 06:36because you went to the bar with your
  192. 06:38friends and there was this cute guy who
  193. 06:40was chatting you up. And the evidence
  194. 06:43there too I interpret I think the way a
  195. 06:46stair would interpret it and and what
  196. 06:48you see in the data also suggests
  197. 06:51something like a protective mechanism

  198. Studies On Sexual Fantasies

  199. 06:53again it's playing with fire but if you
  200. 06:56look in studies where they ask people
  201. 06:58have a sexual fantasy about your partner
  202. 07:01now how much sexual desire do you feel
  203. 07:03for your partner it has gone up great
  204. 07:05that's pretty straightforward now please
  205. 07:08have a sexual fantasy about I don't know
  206. 07:11whoever whoever's in second place that's
  207. 07:14not your partner,
  208. 07:16then you start having sexual feelings
  209. 07:17for that person and you start having
  210. 07:20sexual feelings for your partner at the
  211. 07:22same time. So, it's exactly the metaphor
  212. 07:24that you're describing that when we feel
  213. 07:27a sense of attraction, it can rebound
  214. 07:30onto our partner. And by the way, it
  215. 07:31doesn't happen in the reverse. Okay? So
  216. 07:34the partner, your current partner, again
  217. 07:36for most people in happy relationships,
  218. 07:39holds a special position, you might say,
  219. 07:42where even when there is a little bit of
  220. 07:44a threat, and I've noticed somebody, it
  221. 07:46it rebounds somewhat. I don't advise
  222. 07:49that people go out and do this.
  223. 07:50[laughter]
  224. 07:51You're Are you saying it rebounds like
  225. 07:53it's a it's a fuel for the relationship
  226. 07:55the way that Esther and other people
  227. 07:56have talked about? That's a real thing.
  228. 07:58Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. I mean,
  229. 08:00it's recent studies. I can point to one
  230. 08:02or two. They're all like within the last
  231. 08:04few years.
  232. 08:05This is going to be very uncomfortable
  233. 08:06for some people to hear that their
  234. 08:08partner may come home immensely
  235. 08:10attracted to them because they had some
  236. 08:11sort of interaction during the day of
  237. 08:13either being attracted to someone or
  238. 08:16receiving signals of attractiveness.
  239. 08:18Right. Where I am a thousand% with with
  240. 08:21Estair is that the danger the problem is
  241. 08:24not that your partner was sexually
  242. 08:26attracted to somebody else. The problem

  243. When Interaction Becomes Infidelity

  244. 08:28is usually in the escalation. It's yeah,
  245. 08:31but now are they like repeatedly hanging
  246. 08:33out with them and having like a
  247. 08:34conversations that they feel secretive
  248. 08:36about or that you know if if it's you
  249. 08:38that you feel secretive about? Those are
  250. 08:41the warning signs because then what will
  251. 08:43start to happen is that the protective
  252. 08:45layer that people typically put around
  253. 08:47their partners, it will start to erode
  254. 08:49and that's when people are at a greater
  255. 08:52risk of infidelity. It's usually a
  256. 08:54process like that. the simple fact that
  257. 08:57we can be attracted to other people.
  258. 08:59That is not a problem for the average
  259. 09:02relationship. It's the repeated follow
  260. 09:04through on that attraction that becomes
  261. 09:06a problem.
  262. 09:07And that's something that evolved in
  263. 09:08recent years that there used to be far
  264. 09:10more transient interactions that would
  265. 09:13never resurface again. You sit next to
  266. 09:15someone on a plane, you'd have a
  267. 09:16conversation. Uh there might be
  268. 09:18attraction, there might not be, but you
  269. 09:19develop some degree of intimacy. Some
  270. 09:21people would disclose a lot on planes
  271. 09:23and then you never hear or talk to them
  272. 09:25again. Yeah,
  273. 09:26there's almost an opportunity for people
  274. 09:28to follow up and connect with people.
  275. 09:31That's what James is referring to when
  276. 09:34he talks about social media being a um
  277. 09:36an uh
  278. 09:38barring other person's [clears throat]
  279. 09:39language here, an attack vector, you
  280. 09:41know, on a relationship. And maybe that
  281. 09:43is a good reason for people who are in
  282. 09:45committed relationships to just get off
  283. 09:47of social media period. It's also a
  284. 09:50context where people spend quote unquote
  285. 09:52spend time with people for other
  286. 09:54reasons.
  287. 09:55Yeah, it's tricky. Uh if if I I don't
  288. 09:58recommend using that sort of process to
  289. 10:00bolster your relationship. I guess if
  290. 10:02you're going to do it, you know, try to
  291. 10:04do it by watching somebody. Um, yeah.
  292. 10:07Who's uh Yeah. figure out if you're a
  293. 10:10man who's with a woman, just ask her
  294. 10:13like what actor does she have the hots
  295. 10:14for and like be kind enough to watch a
  296. 10:16movie featuring him. Like maybe that's
  297. 10:18that's a way to make this or the

  298. Managing Attraction To Others

  299. 10:21reverse. Yeah, sure.
  300. 10:22Some of the um what appear to be the
  301. 10:24strongest and happiest couples that I
  302. 10:26know, I know very little about their
  303. 10:29dynamics, period.
  304. 10:30Yeah. which is kind of an interesting
  305. 10:32thing in its own right, but some of the
  306. 10:34people that are in that set seem to have
  307. 10:36a pretty uh relaxed
  308. 10:39rapport around, oh yeah, uh so and so
  309. 10:42referring to their spouse really likes
  310. 10:43that actor or actress. Like it's like
  311. 10:45it's just kind of a thing that they
  312. 10:46understand, but it's over there,
  313. 10:49right? It's it's at a distance. Yeah.
  314. 10:51It's not um it's not like a looming
  315. 10:53threat.
  316. 10:54It's very different if it's about
  317. 10:56somebody that you both like know and
  318. 10:58spend time with. It's much more
  319. 11:00threatening in those cases. And and I
  320. 11:02think that also is part of why that
  321. 11:05derrogation process happens is because
  322. 11:08that threat feels very uncomfortable.
  323. 11:11Like even if it's your attraction, like
  324. 11:13you kind of want to downplay it because
  325. 11:16the thought of what would it mean if I'm
  326. 11:19like with the wrong person or like what
  327. 11:22would happen if this thing spiraled out
  328. 11:23of control, it it's upsetting for most
  329. 11:25people. I mean, we take all this time to
  330. 11:29build a relationship up to be this thing
  331. 11:32that we really value that's a central
  332. 11:34part of our lives. The thought that like
  333. 11:37it could disappear at a moment's notice
  334. 11:40because of of a a mistake that we would
  335. 11:42make, it it can be threatening to most
  336. 11:44people. Even if we're imagining
  337. 11:46ourselves
  338. 11:48engaging in the actions that would bring
  339. 11:50things to an end,
  340. 11:51[music]
  341. 11:58[music]